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Re: Feedback for NetBeans
Posted: 13 Apr 2012, 17:05
by smithh032772
kukeltje wrote:andyba wrote:I am going to give a Visual Editing feature a fat -1000 because you are -never- going to be able to run it WYSIWYG without running things on a server/browser. This is why god gave you "deploy on save" for web apps.
Use it, learn to love it, move on.
+1000
You all are cracking me up. I'm sure I would not using the visual editor either. I don't even use templates xhtml when developing, I do 'Save As', copy/paste, find/search and use TextPad file editor when doing bulk xhtml file changes, and creating new xhtml files, etc...
-1 'deploy on save'...honestly, I like that 'only' for xhtml files. I don't like my netbeans app doing a 'deploy on save' when making bean code changes, and when I startup netbeans, on production server, to deploy latest web app version. I have had to learn (the hard way) that I had to set glassfish cleanup switches to handle/prevent PermGen (which is obviously caused by deploy-on-save and testing the web app afterwards), such as follows:
Code: Select all
<jvm-options>-XX:MaxPermSize=384m</jvm-options>
<jvm-options>-XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC</jvm-options>
<jvm-options>-XX:+CMSPermGenSweepingEnabled</jvm-options>
<jvm-options>-Xmx512m</jvm-options>
<jvm-options>-XX:+CMSClassUnloadingEnabled</jvm-options>
heisenberg wrote:I'm -1 for visual editor as well, visual editors are useless compared to "deploy on save" , "hot deploy". I can't really create a page with a visual editor. My experiences with them were all terrible. I usually drop at wrong place and bored of all dragging dropping, my hand starts to hurt later and the code they generate are usually wrong and not optimized.
I guess it is appealing for people who are new to web development.
Ready made page templates, ui generation from entities are much more useful than a visual editor. Frankly I wouldn't use visual editor if NetBeans comes with one, I'm quite productive with current features anyway.
Agreed. If it helps new developers, then I'm all for these features.
Funny about your hand starting to hurt later (above)...smiling. Honestly, becoming a JSF/Primefaces web app developer, I have to obviously use my mouse to point-and-click UI components on web page, but I really wish I can use 'only' keyboard when navigating and using web apps. I am a keyboard user and would love it if I could 'never' use mouse. Umm, this is one reason why I'm not fan of Apple/Mac. Not trying to start anything/argument here, just being honest.
Re: Feedback for NetBeans
Posted: 15 Apr 2012, 17:11
by fenoloco
heisenberg wrote:I'm -1 for visual editor as well, visual editors are useless compared to "deploy on save" , "hot deploy". I can't really create a page with a visual editor. My experiences with them were all terrible. I usually drop at wrong place and bored of all dragging dropping, my hand starts to hurt later and the code they generate are usually wrong and not optimized.
I guess it is appealing for people who are new to web development.
Ready made page templates, ui generation from entities are much more useful than a visual editor. Frankly I wouldn't use visual editor if NetBeans comes with one, I'm quite productive with current features anyway.
totally agree with you
Re: Feedback for NetBeans
Posted: 16 Apr 2012, 17:23
by Oleg
Visual Editor? I don't use NetBeans, but I used JSF Visual Editor in JBossTools (Eclipse). It's terrible. Who does really need a VisualEditor? It's maybe good for a clumsy CRUD web app, but not suitable for a fine tuned, well designed web app. Wasting of time in my opinion.
Re: Feedback for NetBeans
Posted: 16 Apr 2012, 22:37
by tandraschko
+1 Oleg.
What i miss in JBoss Tools:
- Item code completion in repeater/datatable (don't know if it's just bug)
- CCCC (composite composite code completion for attributes)
- Behavior event completion
- Some performance hints like no logic for rendered attribute
Re: Feedback for NetBeans
Posted: 17 Apr 2012, 10:57
by andyba
smithh032772 wrote:kukeltje wrote:andyba wrote:I am going to give a Visual Editing feature a fat -1000 because you are -never- going to be able to run it WYSIWYG without running things on a server/browser. This is why god gave you "deploy on save" for web apps.
Use it, learn to love it, move on.
+1000
You all are cracking me up. I'm sure I would not using the visual editor either. I don't even use templates xhtml when developing, I do 'Save As', copy/paste, find/search and use TextPad file editor when doing bulk xhtml file changes, and creating new xhtml files, etc...
Does your employee know that you are avoiding effective development practices and are proud of doing so?
As your employer I would be -1000 you and giving a more effective dev +1000
Re: Feedback for NetBeans
Posted: 17 Apr 2012, 13:27
by smithh032772
My employer is my family. +1000
My family sees me glued to my seat always since I started developing web app for them. My father actually likes it when I am away from my desk and not working on this web app. They see my dedication and you see my dedication to primefaces community, which you give -1000. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your opinion of me.
Re: Feedback for NetBeans
Posted: 17 Apr 2012, 18:17
by wkharrat
heisenberg wrote:Lately we have been working with NetBeans team to improve the JSF-PrimeFaces application development features in NetBeans. At this stage, your feedback is required for NetBeans team to prioritize feature requests and keep forward.
So please if you have any feedback like visual editor, preview, code generation or else, drop a comment and we'll forward them to the friends at NetBeans Team.
Thanks!
this is the best jsf plugin :
http://netbeans.org/community/magazine/ ... ualwebdev/ try to do like that. And the code generated with this plugin is clean
Re: Feedback for NetBeans
Posted: 18 Apr 2012, 08:49
by ttretau
I am using Netbeans maven projects but if I compile the Primefaces Maven project myself and use it as dependency code completion does not work. Netbeans has "No library found for this namespace" in the xhtml-source file..
Fixing this would be a large improvement..
Torben
Re: Feedback for NetBeans
Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 09:20
by Sophiejames
That was a really nice invention and i feel really comfortable with the visual editor and i must appreciate for this amazing NetBeans.
Thank you !!!!
Re: Feedback for NetBeans
Posted: 24 Apr 2012, 10:39
by dublintech
Generally I'd agree that visual editors have their limitations, and most developers are more productive without them.
However, there is a place for being able to visually design a page as, for example, intake form (wouldn't have same flexibility or power as coding it), as it is quite common in many situations to want to give non-developers the power to be able to design page/form using drag'n'drop (business agility). The data captured might be saved into XML or name-value pairs table. Salesforce has capabilities along these lines.
Ideally it would be runtime tool rather than dev time tool; 'deploy on save' would lessen the pain of being dev time for non-dev. XForms is technology in this space but doesn't seem to have much adoption (not aware of any good visual editors for xforms). Also I'd rather keep to the JSF/PrimeFaces technologies.
Thoughts?
Anybody aware of anything in this space?
What's the best Java/JSF visual editor today?
Thanks,
Michael